iPhone, za i protiv

[gameforce]

Misliš da predjem na 3Gs ili da sačekam 4G ili ... 5?
Šalu na stranu.
Ni jedan proizvod Apple nisam nikada video kao nešto što bi meni koristilo.
Verovatno znaš i sam da skoro 50% svih svetskih smartova čine symbiani?
Masovno tržište stvara masovnu proizvodnju a naročito sada kada je open os.
Zato prepotentne izjave da je symbian mrtav živeo iP OS mislim da su jako preuranjene.
Ono što će sahraniti symbian je android a ne iP
Mene ne nervira najava Apple-a da će izbaciti nešto novo nego laž da je to novo.
Otkrivaju toplu vodu i rupu na saksiji samo sa novim imenom.
Navlače mase na te hiper-giga-mega-revolucionarne proizvode a u suštini sve se svodi na već vidjeno samo sa ispoliranim look-om.
Ok ko voli da ga obmanjuju i ko svesno pristaje na to, tako mu i treba.
Predstavnik toga je njihov PR čika S pa ga zato i pominjem.
Sve se svodi na to da neko voli plave...
A neko da čeka da mu daju na kašičicu.
Gde je kraj?
Spirala Apple ide i dalje zahvaljujući fanovima koji uporno kupuju jednu "novotariju" za drugom i uvećavaju budžet prevarantima.
Prestao sam odavno da se zbog fanova nerviram.Svako ima pravo na svoje vidjenje ali nikada neću shvatiti poistovećenje sa Apple i sa parčetom hardvera zbog koga vredjaju druge koji ne misle kao oni.

[Miškoni]

Uzmi mene za primer i objasni mi kako sam ja to obmanut i šta moram da čekam?

[Wicker Man]

I samo mi nemoj prichati nekakve ode o legalnosti jer ja to nikad necu postovati, ako je nesto napravljeno, a meni je potrebno, ja cu to imati na bilo koji nacin. Sto se Symbiana tiche, do pre koji mesec je moralo da se hakuje na teze nacine nego iP. A da platis sve aplikacije koje ti zaista trebaju, trebalo bi ti pravo malo bogatstvo.

E vidis ovo je vec stvar etike,koja treba da je svima na nesto visem nivou.Tako sam i ja razmisljao dok nisam usao u te vode i kada vidis koliko treba znanja,truda i upornosti da se napravi neka aplikacija pocnes da cenis te ljude i to mnogo.
Ako ne zelis da platis trazi alternativu koja je free.
Izvinte za off.

[Green]

Ljudi, odavno nisam sa tolikom paznjom citao neku temu na mobilnom svetu

Elem, gameforce, opet na temu wi-fi, tvoj ortak verovatno ima neki problem u njegovom iP, jer kod mog kolege, njegov 3G model jako retko koci sa konekcijom. Ne znam da li je to do mreze koju imamo u firmi, kad se moja E71 pobuni, ali ako jeste, ne kontam kako se to iP nakaci iz cuga, radi sta hoce, a ja blejim u potpuno beli ekran na mom "precious"...

Da zavrsim moje skromno izlaganje na ovu temu: iP je moderan uredjaj, kakav god hardverski i softverski bio, radi mnogo toga, manje vise odlicno, ali nekako je neprimereno stavljati obmanutost i zadovoljstvo u koriscenju iP u istu kategoriju. Mozda obmanuti jesu sami Amerikanci, koji ce svaki svoj proizvod ionako staviti u prvi plan, bez obzira kakvog kvaliteta bio.

Green, iPhone kao parce hardvera, za ili protiv? Ni jedno ni drugo.

[gameforce]

Miškoni, Koliko puta moram da kažem da nismo mi ovde (bar većina) merilo za prosečnog korisnika?
Ti si našao deo koji tebe zadovoljava u hakovanju i korišćenju mreže npr i to sa svim mogućnostima koje ti hardware dozvoljava.
Ostalih 90% korisnika ???
U skoro svakom komentaru vidim glavni atribut "ima to i kod drugih ali ovde lepše i bolje izgleda"
Lepši i bolji izgled sa nedostacima ili kompletan uredjaj je već stvar potrebe i ukusa a najviše znanja, Znanja kod onih koji znaju kako da to kompenzuju a ne kod onih koji ni sms ne umeju da pošalju (ajde da ne preterujem ali koji su recimo uplašeni zakonskom regulativom i pretnjama gubljenja garancije kao ovi kod mene i većina amera sa ugovorom AT&T)
Opet naglašavam da SVE što ti imaš sa sve JB, Cydi-om postoji i na drugim telefonima bez ikakvih prepreka (porazumeva se da pričamo o legalnoj kupovini app) i to mnogo pre a da otkrivanjem tople vode u bojleru čika S zamućuje stvarnost i pokušava da gore navedene ubedi da imaju više i bolje od ostalih.Suština se svodi na ispoliranost istih i glamur koji im daje što dobar ekran što statusni simbol.
A šta ti čekaš? Brod do Stalaća? Šala naravno. Pa pričamo o kašičici, zar ne?
Čekaš 4G i čekaš prvu priliku da zameniš svoj 3Gs za njega a prvo čekaš 4.0 da updatuješ svoj iP(Na osnovu tvoje priče ubedjen sam 99% da je tako)
Grešim?

Nego uzgredno, da li ti kod kuće koristiš Apple računar?
Pretpostavljam da si na poslu ograničen serverom 2000 kao i ja.

Green, da ima problem, ima a da li je to samo do njega nisam imao priliku da proverim jer nemam drugi 3Gs u blizini.On kada resetuje i kada se zakači nema problema sa surfom.Pretpostavljam da je problem u ssid jer kaže da se to ne dešava u kafićima.
Svakako da je situacija kod tebe i mene, što se tiče ovih primera dijametrano suprotna. Ja nikakvih problema nemam ni sa N82 ni sa 5800 niti sam imao na bilo kojem WiFi koji sam probao.Možda i kod tebe loš primerak?

[miodrage]

gameforce, ne znam ti tog ortaka, i necu nista d akazem ruzno o coveku, ali kada nema SSID mreze, onda je pozeljnije u iPhonetu manuelno napraviti konekciju, i zapamtiti podesavanja. Znam jer jer sam se ja kuci igrao sa time i zezao, i video kako i sta radi. Neka pokusa ovo sto sam ti rekao, i mislim da ce da radi.
A sada da se vrnemo na temu. Miškoni, je tako lepo sve objasnio, da ja i nemam zapravo sta da dodam.
Jos da repliciram stefgi-u, u sta ja to nisam upucen? Ja video svojim ochima tarifu koju sam naveo, u Italiji, dok sam se setao ulicama Verone. Mislim da je Tim bio operater. A na stranu to sto zakon u Italiji obavezuje da prodaju telefone otkljucane. I ja sam odatle nabavio fon I u cemu se ogleda moja neupucenost?

[gameforce]

miodrage, pa naravno da tako i radi.
Medjutim kada sutradan ili za 2-3 dana pokuša da ubaci novi password, iP kao da i dalje koristi stari.
Hang jedno vreme pa izbaci incorrect password ili tako nešto sl.
Onda ga on resetuje, napravi ponovo istu konekciju, sačuva kao takvu naravno i radi bez problema.
Tako nažalost gubi i sve ostale ali radi.

[Miškoni]

gameforce, ostadoh ti dužan odgovor. Ne radujem se ništa specijalno OS-u 4 jer već imam praktično sve što donosi. A kupovina novog će doći na red tek kada se (i ako se) telefon pokaže, kada cena dođe na neki meni prihvatljiv nivo i kada mi dosadi GS. Ja sam strpljiv i volim dobro da promislim pre kupovine.

Ne koristim ništa drugo od Apple-a. U firmi nemamo ni jedan Mac i nismo ograničeni 2k serverima, mada imamo i neke koji rade pod NT-om. Nama licence nisu problem, dovoljno smo veliki i dobijamo preko MSDN-a na test sve što hoćemo, pa ako nam se dopadne - kupimo.

[Vlada Zem]

Ajfon čini muškarce seksepilnijim?
Istraživanje jedne britanske firme koja se bavi mobilnom telefonijom, pokazalo je da su muškarci koji poseduju ajfon u očima žena mnogo seksepilniji od onih koji koriste klasične mobilne telefone.
Dalje, >B92<
Eto još jedne 3rd part opcije

[miodrage]

Zasto mi je obrisan post? Mislim stvarno nije u redu! Lepo sam napisao sta sam imao i svoje misljenje, i post je obrisan bez ikakve notifikacije. A ovde smo da suceljavamo misljenja a ne svi da mislimo isto kako neki propovedaju!

[gameforce]

Ja nisam, ja volim da čujem svačije mišljenje. Naročito o dotičnoj temi.
Kada smo kod teme, komentari čitalaca su zanimljiviji od samog članka.

[Miškoni]

miodrage, ne znam zašto ti je izbrisan post ali da nisi malko psovao i tako to?
Na kraju će još da ispadne da treba da nas bude sramota što imamo iPhone. Kakva baljezgarija...

[Ninolina]

Nisam ni ja obrisala.. Nisam čak ni videla post.. mozda se neko javi..

[bgexplorer]

Ja mogu samo jedno da kažem ;
Kada sam prvi put čačkao i phone očekivao sam puno a nisam video ništa posebno osim gomile ikonica naslaganih kao cigle.
Kada smo devojka i ja uključili HTC HD 2 uh..... prava reč je "Čaroban"

[Miškoni]

bgexplorer, moja reakcija je bila identična kada sam prvi put uzeo iPhone u ruke i nije me zanimao sve do trenutka dok nisam shvatio da me skoro svaki telefon ostavlja ravnodušnim. Onda sam mu posvetio malo više pažnje i...

[miodrage]

Nema veze, psovao nisam nikoga, jer to nije moj obicaj. NEma veze, zivot ide dalje.
bgexplorer, Isto kao i Miškoni, i ja sam imao takvu reakciju na iPhone. Uzeo sam Touch HD u ruke i razocarao se. HD2 mi je vec bolji, ali pored iPhoneta... ma nema sta da trazi

miodrage, ma što ih ti ne primećuješ ni po jada ali telefon ih vidi i reaguje na njih kako je programiran.

S obzirom da je polemisanje u ovoj temi ja cu tu da nastavim.
Upravo sam ti o tome i pricao... ja to ne primecujem, ne klikam, ne stiskam, kod mene je to na delete istog sekunda. Jednostavno takav sam. Ne cuvam poruke, ne cuvam mailove, ne klikam nigde...
Ako je automatsko izvrsavanje, onda je to drugo, ali to bi bas puno programiranja bilo cak i za Apple.

[gameforce]

miodrage, ima veze, napiši slobodno ponovo. Nisi psovao ok ali da kršiš pravila, kršiš. Pa je neko možda zbog pravila brisao.Drugo ovo je za i protiv a ono diskusija o OS 4.0 pa je zato i razdvojena tema i nemoj spajati diskusije kada nisu o istom problemu.

Ako mi veruješ to je 1 ili max 2 reda programa da tel na ključnu reč, odvuče na erase rutinu.Ne da ne bi stigao da obrišeš takvu poruku nego je ne bi ni video niti shvatio zašto se to desilo. Verovatno ne bi tel ni stigao da pusti zvučni signal za poruku.

[Vlada Zem]

Edit,
Ja ne vidim u čemu je problem? "Život ide dalje.", kakav fatalizam, ??? Ili ste vi malo preozbiljno shvatili ovu temu ("iPhone, za ili protiv") a ja malo neozbiljno, svejedno, obrišite link sa b92 i "mirna Bosna". Ako nekog vređaju "komentari", sami ste kliknuli na iste...
pozz

[Miškoni]

Pošto smo pominjali izostalu podršku za flash od strane Apple-a, evo konačno i zvaničnog objašnjenja u otvorenom pisma Stiva...

Apple has a long relationship with Adobe. In fact, we met Adobe’s founders when they were in their proverbial garage. Apple was their first big customer, adopting their Postscript language for our new Laserwriter printer. Apple invested in Adobe and owned around 20% of the company for many years. The two companies worked closely together to pioneer desktop publishing and there were many good times. Since that golden era, the companies have grown apart. Apple went through its near death experience, and Adobe was drawn to the corporate market with their Acrobat products. Today the two companies still work together to serve their joint creative customers – Mac users buy around half of Adobe’s Creative Suite products – but beyond that there are few joint interests.

I wanted to jot down some of our thoughts on Adobe’s Flash products so that customers and critics may better understand why we do not allow Flash on iPhones, iPods and iPads. Adobe has characterized our decision as being primarily business driven – they say we want to protect our App Store – but in reality it is based on technology issues. Adobe claims that we are a closed system, and that Flash is open, but in fact the opposite is true. Let me explain.

First, there’s “Open”.

Adobe’s Flash products are 100% proprietary. They are only available from Adobe, and Adobe has sole authority as to their future enhancement, pricing, etc. While Adobe’s Flash products are widely available, this does not mean they are open, since they are controlled entirely by Adobe and available only from Adobe. By almost any definition, Flash is a closed system.

Apple has many proprietary products too. Though the operating system for the iPhone, iPod and iPad is proprietary, we strongly believe that all standards pertaining to the web should be open. Rather than use Flash, Apple has adopted HTML5, CSS and JavaScript – all open standards. Apple’s mobile devices all ship with high performance, low power implementations of these open standards. HTML5, the new web standard that has been adopted by Apple, Google and many others, lets web developers create advanced graphics, typography, animations and transitions without relying on third party browser plug-ins (like Flash). HTML5 is completely open and controlled by a standards committee, of which Apple is a member.

Apple even creates open standards for the web. For example, Apple began with a small open source project and created WebKit, a complete open-source HTML5 rendering engine that is the heart of the Safari web browser used in all our products. WebKit has been widely adopted. Google uses it for Android’s browser, Palm uses it, Nokia uses it, and RIM (Blackberry) has announced they will use it too. Almost every smartphone web browser other than Microsoft’s uses WebKit. By making its WebKit technology open, Apple has set the standard for mobile web browsers.

Second, there’s the “full web”.

Adobe has repeatedly said that Apple mobile devices cannot access “the full web” because 75% of video on the web is in Flash. What they don’t say is that almost all this video is also available in a more modern format, H.264, and viewable on iPhones, iPods and iPads. YouTube, with an estimated 40% of the web’s video, shines in an app bundled on all Apple mobile devices, with the iPad offering perhaps the best YouTube discovery and viewing experience ever. Add to this video from Vimeo, Netflix, Facebook, ABC, CBS, CNN, MSNBC, Fox News, ESPN, NPR, Time, The New York Times, The Wall Street Journal, Sports Illustrated, People, National Geographic, and many, many others. iPhone, iPod and iPad users aren’t missing much video.

Another Adobe claim is that Apple devices cannot play Flash games. This is true. Fortunately, there are over 50,000 games and entertainment titles on the App Store, and many of them are free. There are more games and entertainment titles available for iPhone, iPod and iPad than for any other platform in the world.

Third, there’s reliability, security and performance.

Symantec recently highlighted Flash for having one of the worst security records in 2009. We also know first hand that Flash is the number one reason Macs crash. We have been working with Adobe to fix these problems, but they have persisted for several years now. We don’t want to reduce the reliability and security of our iPhones, iPods and iPads by adding Flash.

In addition, Flash has not performed well on mobile devices. We have routinely asked Adobe to show us Flash performing well on a mobile device, any mobile device, for a few years now. We have never seen it. Adobe publicly said that Flash would ship on a smartphone in early 2009, then the second half of 2009, then the first half of 2010, and now they say the second half of 2010. We think it will eventually ship, but we’re glad we didn’t hold our breath. Who knows how it will perform?

Fourth, there’s battery life.

To achieve long battery life when playing video, mobile devices must decode the video in hardware; decoding it in software uses too much power. Many of the chips used in modern mobile devices contain a decoder called H.264 – an industry standard that is used in every Blu-ray DVD player and has been adopted by Apple, Google (YouTube), Vimeo, Netflix and many other companies.

Although Flash has recently added support for H.264, the video on almost all Flash websites currently requires an older generation decoder that is not implemented in mobile chips and must be run in software. The difference is striking: on an iPhone, for example, H.264 videos play for up to 10 hours, while videos decoded in software play for less than 5 hours before the battery is fully drained.

When websites re-encode their videos using H.264, they can offer them without using Flash at all. They play perfectly in browsers like Apple’s Safari and Google’s Chrome without any plugins whatsoever, and look great on iPhones, iPods and iPads.

Fifth, there’s Touch.

Flash was designed for PCs using mice, not for touch screens using fingers. For example, many Flash websites rely on “rollovers”, which pop up menus or other elements when the mouse arrow hovers over a specific spot. Apple’s revolutionary multi-touch interface doesn’t use a mouse, and there is no concept of a rollover. Most Flash websites will need to be rewritten to support touch-based devices. If developers need to rewrite their Flash websites, why not use modern technologies like HTML5, CSS and JavaScript?

Even if iPhones, iPods and iPads ran Flash, it would not solve the problem that most Flash websites need to be rewritten to support touch-based devices.

Sixth, the most important reason.

Besides the fact that Flash is closed and proprietary, has major technical drawbacks, and doesn’t support touch based devices, there is an even more important reason we do not allow Flash on iPhones, iPods and iPads. We have discussed the downsides of using Flash to play video and interactive content from websites, but Adobe also wants developers to adopt Flash to create apps that run on our mobile devices.

We know from painful experience that letting a third party layer of software come between the platform and the developer ultimately results in sub-standard apps and hinders the enhancement and progress of the platform. If developers grow dependent on third party development libraries and tools, they can only take advantage of platform enhancements if and when the third party chooses to adopt the new features. We cannot be at the mercy of a third party deciding if and when they will make our enhancements available to our developers.

This becomes even worse if the third party is supplying a cross platform development tool. The third party may not adopt enhancements from one platform unless they are available on all of their supported platforms. Hence developers only have access to the lowest common denominator set of features. Again, we cannot accept an outcome where developers are blocked from using our innovations and enhancements because they are not available on our competitor’s platforms.

Flash is a cross platform development tool. It is not Adobe’s goal to help developers write the best iPhone, iPod and iPad apps. It is their goal to help developers write cross platform apps. And Adobe has been painfully slow to adopt enhancements to Apple’s platforms. For example, although Mac OS X has been shipping for almost 10 years now, Adobe just adopted it fully (Cocoa) two weeks ago when they shipped CS5. Adobe was the last major third party developer to fully adopt Mac OS X.

Our motivation is simple – we want to provide the most advanced and innovative platform to our developers, and we want them to stand directly on the shoulders of this platform and create the best apps the world has ever seen. We want to continually enhance the platform so developers can create even more amazing, powerful, fun and useful applications. Everyone wins – we sell more devices because we have the best apps, developers reach a wider and wider audience and customer base, and users are continually delighted by the best and broadest selection of apps on any platform.

Conclusions.

Flash was created during the PC era – for PCs and mice. Flash is a successful business for Adobe, and we can understand why they want to push it beyond PCs. But the mobile era is about low power devices, touch interfaces and open web standards – all areas where Flash falls short.

The avalanche of media outlets offering their content for Apple’s mobile devices demonstrates that Flash is no longer necessary to watch video or consume any kind of web content. And the 200,000 apps on Apple’s App Store proves that Flash isn’t necessary for tens of thousands of developers to create graphically rich applications, including games.

New open standards created in the mobile era, such as HTML5, will win on mobile devices (and PCs too). Perhaps Adobe should focus more on creating great HTML5 tools for the future, and less on criticizing Apple for leaving the past behind.

Steve Jobs
April, 2010

Inače, Facebook je pre neki dan najavio podršku za HTML5.

Great news from Facebook. Starting today , all videos will be HTML5 ready , so we can view them on our iDevices. We don’t even have to wait for an app update, they just work. Unfortunately, videos uploaded in the past will not work on our iDevice…

And ReadWriteWeb did some tests this morning and, it appears that Facebook isn’t actually using HTML5 to display the videos. Instead, what appears to be going on is that Facebook.com is detecting that you’ve arrived to the website via the Safari web browser on the iPad. When you then attempt to play a video on the iPad, it doesn’t play inline (something that would have been a clear confirmation of an HTML5 implementation). Instead, Facebook is linking out to the actual video, transcoded to MP4, a video format that plays on Apple devices.

We confirmed this by uploading a video file to Facebook in WMV format (a non-iPad compatible video format) and then attempting to play it on the iPad. It played as an MP4 file.

And Now we know why Apple want to say Goodbye to Adobe Flash, if We got HTML5, let's say goodbye to flash, I believe it just about Time.

via FSM

[gameforce]

Koliko kontradiktornosti i nebuloznih izjava namenjenih očigleno "načitanom" delu iPhone populacije.
Već u prvoj stavci, Adobe je zatvoren i kontrolisan samo od Adobe a Apple otvoren, mi je bilo jasno kome je namenjen tekst.
Najveća laž koju je mogao da smisli pa čak i sam sebe demantuje već nekoliko rečenica kasnije na čak 2 mesta gde sam kaže da želi da kontroliše čak i HTML5 i da drži isključivo pravo na razvojnim alatima za iPhone. Naravno ne zato što su oni loši momci kao Adobe već zbog blagodeti korisniku.
Samo zato verovatno i prave tajni agreement sa developerima koji je kritikovan od Electronic Frontier Foundation kao potpuni anti-open source! I verovatno zato daje sebi za pravo kao što piše u tom ugovoru da UBIJE svaku app pa čak i kada je instalirana od strane krajnjeg korisnika. "Apple's reserving the right to kill an app at any time even after users have installed it"
Skroz open!
De-facto je da je HTML5 beba u razvoju i da je podržan od 0.1% weba i da mu predstoji put od bar 2-3 godine da dostigne ono što sada već postoji i popularnost da bi bio masovno korišćen.
Dotle (to zaboravlja da kaže naravno) većina njegovih gadgeta će biti zastarela i staro gvoždje...
Dotle će njegovi voljeni korisnici "visiti" u vakuumu i sa nestrpljenjem otvarati svaki novi site koji bude bombastično najavljen da podržava HTML5 samo da bi videli prednosti?
Možda zato postoji ona izjava da uz iPhone imate novi web experience?
Meša babe i žabe ali to moram priznati radi sa puno umešnosti tako da laiku poistovećuje Flash i video format H.264 i nabraja sajtove i kaže "best YouTube discovery and viewing experience ever" pa nabraja kompatibilne sajtove vidljive sa svojim H.264 playerom. Ko nema blage veze sa tehnikom samo klimne glavom i naravno obavezno drži polu-otvorena usta da bolje skapira (tako vidim korisnika koji ovo može da proguta bez kritike). Naravno da izostavlja da kaže da se to sve gleda i ako imate Flash a i ostatak od 60% koji koji ne pominje jer mu ne ide u prilog.Flash je izmedju ostalog samo kontejner za mnogobrojne video kodeke pa nije jednostran kao pomenuti player koji dekodira samo jedan format.Očigledno priča namenjena vlasnicima, da zabludele ovce koje se bune po forumima privede svome stadu i potapše po ramenu sa rečima"Vi imate najbolje i ne treba vam ništa što mi kažemo da ne treba"
U suštini svodi se cela priča na tačku 4 i 6.
Baterija koja i ovako ima pritužbe na kapacitet bi crkavala još brže a pri tom Apple sem ogromne kritike ne bi imao nikakve koristi (čitaj lovu) od 3th DT koje ne može da kontroliše i gde se cenzuriše i progoni sve gore nego u vreme McCarthy-a
Kada sam pročitao da npr i plivački Olimpiski tim podleže cenzuri i nije appropriate sadržaj jer je u kupaćim kostimima pao sam sa stolice.
Čisto otvoreno, skoro pa kao u midieval. Samo fale lomače.
To je ona priča o polu istinama i lažima gde svako ponavljanje dovodi do toga da se to sutra prihvati kao istina.O ovoj njegovoj "izjavi", pre bih rekao marketingu, moglo bi da se priča još ihaj ali ... ovakvu retoriku nije imao ni ovde na forumu spomenuti J.Goebbels te mi je malko muka od ciklona-b kojim truje ovaj čovek.
Sada će da navale klimači glavama a je ću da uživam u surfovanju totalno zatvorenim besplatnim Adobe Flash playerom i pri tom zamišljam kako opravdavaju čika S kada ne mogu da otvore neki site koji otvaraju i kinezi od 20$